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Guide for GroupDiscussionPresented byNORTHEASTERN MINNESOTA SYNOD, ELCA
CONTENTSFrom Intention Into Action 2Origin Of e Broken Lands Podcast 3e Signigance Behind $185,400 + $100 + $1,000 5Broken Lands: Part 1What Do Reparations Have To Do With e Gospel? 11Broken Lands: Part 2anksgiving: An Autopsy 15Broken Lands: Part 3Politics And Nationalism In e Church 19
▲ Ministry Leaders and Worship Assistants from ELCA’s Northeastern Minnesota SynodCONTENTSBroken Lands: Part 4Treaty Rights And You 23Broken Lands: Part 5Building Bridges With Our Family Stories 27Broken Lands: Part 6Our Children Are Leading Us Now 31
Origin of theBROKENLANDSPodcastBroken Lands PodcastAs part of the initiative to begin conversations within our ELCA congregations about and the sig-nicance of these reparations, we made the deci-sion to launch a limited podcast series titled Broken Lands. e goal of the podcast is to contextualize the Duluth Reparation as a step forward to being better neighbors. We asked the Rev. Dr. Matthew Cobb, a long-time pastor serving in Indian Country, to host honest and constructive conversations with both Ojibwe people and descendants of European settlers within the Northeastern Minnesota Synod about our shared history on these lands. Our hope is that this series builds on the reparation oering and serves as another positive step toward a clear-eyed view of learning how to live well together on these lands. In this booklet and discussion guide, you will nd an article by Bishop Amy Ogden explaining the sig-nifcance of the numbers included in the reparation oering, 185400 + 100 + 1100 USD, and the trea-ties that those numbers reference. You will also nd excerpts from each of the six episodes of season 1 of Broken Lands. Following each episode, there are questions for continued group discussion surround-ing the topics covered in the podcast episode. At the end of each episode transcription selection, you will also nd a QR code that you can use to link to the full episode.« 3
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THESIGNIFIGANCEBEHIND$185,400 +$100 +$1,000The elected leadership in Northeastern Minnesota Synod, in collaboration with Together Here Ministries, resolved to gift $185400 + $100 + $1100 to the Minnesota Chippewa Tribe as a way of acknowledging our synod’s commitment to repairing relationships between and with Indigenous Peoples. e funds are from a portion of the proceeds of our synod’s sale of land originally inhabited by Ojibwe (also known as the Chippewa) in the City of Duluth.Since we released the news, some people have asked about the signicance behind the amount of the funds. $185400 + $100 + $1100 honors the treaties made between the U.S. government and Ojibwe nations in 1854, 1855, and 1866. As a result of these treaties, it became possible for settlers to legally establish communities and benet economically in the area we know as the Northeastern Minnesota Synod. ere isn’t a church building or community in our synod that hasn’t been built upon ceded land. As such, our synod and many of its members have benetted and continue to benet, either directly or indirectly, from these treaties. It’s important for all of us to learn about the agreements made on our behalf in these treaties, how we are to live in response to these agreements, and how this all impacts the lives of our Indigenous neighbors.BISHOP AMY ODGREN◄ Map from Indian Land Cessions in the United States, 1784 to 1894 edited by Charles C. Royce. Published by the United States Bureau of American Ethnology, Washington, DC Lithography by A. Moen & Co., Baltimore, MD5
▼ Minnesota Land ceded in 1837 Treaty▼ Minnesota Land ceded in 1854 Treaty1837 TreatyWith an ever-growing need for lumber, developers saw the old growth forests in the north as a prime source of timber. e 1837 Treaty with the Chippewa, also known as the Pine Treaty, was signed as a result. Although recognized by the U.S. government as a cessation treaty, Lake Superior Chippewa communities assert that they never intended to give up the land – they only granted permission for harvest of white pines. Five years later, the 1842 Treaty with the Chippewa, commonly called the Mineral Treaty, was signed, establishing a “mineral district” in which the U.S. government could mine and retaining the rights of the Ojibwe of hunting and “other usual privileges of occupancy” on the territory.In 1848, surveyors found a vein of copper on the north shore of Lake Superior and outside the “mineral district” established in the 1842 Treaty. Michigan mining interests began pressuring the U.S. government to open the area for mining. At the same time, Minnesota Territorial Governor, Alexander Ramsey, collaborated with the Indian Agent in the Lake Superior territory to remove all Chippewa to west of the Mississippi River, citing violation by the Ojibwe of the parameters set in 1842 Treaty as grounds. In truth, they wanted access to the Lake Superior Chippewa’s annuity payments in order to boost the territory’s economy. e Sandy Lake Tragedy resulted. In response, a delegation of Lake Superior Chippewa chiefs traveled to Washington DC armed with a petition containing signatures of thousands of settlers who testied that the Ojibwe had not violated the treaty and should, therefore, not be removed. Although President Fillmore agreed, pressure for removal continued, resulting in the signing of the 1854 Treaty of La Pointe.1854 Treatyrough the 1854 Treaty, the Ojibwe ceded northwestern Wisconsin and the Arrowhead Region of Minnesota, opening the area for the development of towns and mining operations. A designation in the 1854 treaty was the creation of reservations in upper Michigan, northern Wisconsin, and northeastern Minnesota as 6
well as the retention of Ojibwe people’s extensive rights to exercise “usual privileges of occupancy,” including hunting, shing, and gathering on the land. In addition to annuity payments, the treaty indicated that “each head of a family, or single person over twenty-one years of age belonging to the Chippewas of Lake Superior, shall be entitled to eighty acres of land, to be selected by them under the direction of the President, and which shall be secured to them by patent in the usual form.” However, the U.S. government held the power to survey and administer the land allotments and change them if they saw t. Grand Portage and Fond Du Lac Reservations are founded on land retained in the 1854 Treaty.1855 TreatyAnnuity payments are the annual payments that the U.S. government agreed to make in exchange for millions of acres of traditional Ojibwe lands. Without trade agreements, annuities were often needed to supplement hunting, shing, and other uses of the land. e annuity system, however, was vulnerable to fraud and the willingness of the U.S. government to honor their agreement. With the complete collapse of the fur trade, the 1855 Treaty marked a signicant change in the economics of the Ojibwe people west of the Mississippi River, shifting their primary economic source to annuity payments and changing their connection to the land through land allotments.rough the Treaty of 1855, the Mississippi, Pillager, and Lake Winnibigoshish Bands of Chippewa ceded territory in what is now the northwestern portion of Northeastern Minnesota Synod. Like the 1854 Treaty, the 1855 Treaty allotted land to individuals and families. By allotting land to individual families, the U.S government attempted to replace the centuries-old spiritual connection of Ojibwe people to the land with a new system of private property on which Ojibwe people could become farmers. In addition to the Chippewa, the 1855 Treaty gave missionaries the option to buy 180 acres each on the reservation. e 1855 Treaty did not contain language retaining the Ojibwe peoples’ right to exercise the usual privileges of occupancy. Ojibwe communities continue to assert that they mandated this clause and believed it was included since it had been part of all the other treaties negotiated with Chippewa tribes. To this day, band members continue to ght for the usufructuary rights they have been denied. Since the signing of the 1855 Treaty, reservation lands have been ceded, stolen, co-opted, vacated, restored, and enlarged through treaties, acts of Congress, and the actions of corporations, Indian agents and other “entrepreneurs.” Today, Leech Lake and Mille Lacs Reservations are founded on lands retained through the 1855 Treaty.1866 TreatyDuring the 1854 Treaty process, the Bois Forte Band of Ojibwe retained an area of land that included Lake Vermillion. Twelve years later, in 1866, the Commissioner of Indian Aairs reported to Congress that discoveries of gold had been made in that region. It didn’t take long for gold mining companies to become incorporated in Minnesota and armed miners soon moved into this area. Although over 3,000 acres were retained as Ojibwe land through earlier treaties, the Bois Forte Band of Ojibwe, wanting to live in peaceable relationship with the U.S. government, ceded their territory, retaining a much smaller area for a new Bois Forte Reservation. It was later discovered that the State geologist had incorrectly identied magnetic pyrite, commonly called fool’s gold, as gold. e land was not returned to the Ojibwe people. By 1867, only about 70 white people remained in the ceded territory. Today, the Bois Forte Reservation is founded on land they retained in the 1866 treaty.is is just a brief description of the important treaties that ceded the land, which our synod geography encompasses. We are on the homelands of the Ojibwe (Chippewa) Nation – who once lived, worked, and worshipped here for many years prior to anyone whose European ancestors founded Lutheran churches, owned property, or built buildings. e gift given to the Minnesota Chippewa Tribe, a federally recognized tribal government comprised of the Bois Forte, Fond du Lac, Grand Portage, Leech Lake, Mille Lacs, 7
▼ Minnesota Land ceded in 1855 Treaty▼ Minnesota Land ceded in 1866 Treaty“The U.S. government attempted to replace the centuries-old spiritual connection of Ojibwe people to the land with a new system of private property.”and White Earth Bands, presents opportunities for synod churches and church members to reect on what it means to be in relationship with God and one another and how we relate to our collective history. e amount of $185400 + $100 + $1100 will provide opportunities to learn about, learn from, and be in deepening relationship with Indigenous Peoples and Tribal nations here and now.I encourage all our synod congregations to become educated about the Indigenous Peoples who thrived prior to European contact within your specic local contexts. In a shared commitment to the repairing of relationships with Indigenous Peoples, participation in and support of creative programs of restorative justice and reparations could be further accomplished – this might lead to the consideration of nancial gifts, transfer or sale of real property, including returning land (and any structures built on it) after satisfying any nancial obligations, to the appropriate Native communities, and when direct return is not feasible or not desired by the Indigenous people, to return proceeds from the sale of the land to local Indigenous led ministries or organizations. Our theology informs our understanding of God’s unconditional love and God’s amazing diverse creation in which each person is created in God’s very own image. Our shared histories contain the eects of breached trust; a breach that is impacting our abilities to live fully in a way that reects God’s unconditional love for all God’s amazing diverse creation. It is only right that we do this work of repair which has caused such pain to others who are also God’s very own.«8
▲ Annuities being paid at the Fond Du Lac Reservation, c.1865. Source: Minnesota Historical Society
In episode 1, host Matt Cobb talks with the Rev. Matt McWaters, chairperson of the nance committee that recommended to the Northeastern Minnesota Synod Council of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America. ey talk about the synod’s decision to oer reparations to the Minnesota Chippewa Tribe. e Rev. McWaters shares how the synod came to the decision to oer this reparation and how theology informed the process. e following transcript has been edited for clarity and readability.Matt CobbCan we begin by talking about your own connections to land?e Rev. Matt McWatersI grew up in Grand Forks, North Dakota, but my roots from my mother’s side and my father’s side are both in agriculture in eastern North Dakota and the rich soils of the Red River Valley and just a little further west. So as a young child, I would help out with harvest time. And beyond that, since I was ve years old, my father would take me out hunting ducks, geese, and waterfowl on the land.A lot of people describe the landscape of North Dakota as cold, at, and boring. I never quite understood that because beginning as a young child laying in the middle of a eld that’s been tilled and next to cattails and a slough, I came to appreciate the gentle undulations of the land and the wind. Watching snow geese tornado down into the water and come into the decoys and watching them slip the wind that would burst every now and again. I just really came to appreciate the subtleties of the places that we were. And now living in Minnesota, everything my family loves to do is tied to the creation and the subtleties of this place. Matt CobbLet’s talk about the re of the Holy Spirit that was lit for us a couple of weeks ago at a synod council subcommittee meeting for nance. We were taking up a recommendation in the Northeastern Minnesota Synod. Can you take us back to that subcommittee meeting? e Rev. Matt McWatersAbsolutely. When we think of a nance committee, we think of looking at numbers and reports and those sorts of things. On the NE MN Synod Finance Committee, going back ve or six years, we’ve had certain members who have pushed us to think beyond numbers and to think about the story and the narrative that undergirds those numbers and reports.In this case, we had gathered to look at a windfall of income from the sale of some property. Initially, we looked at the numbers, but then we dove immediately into the story WHAT DO REPARATIONS HAVE TO DO WITH THE GOSPEL?◄ Spear…sh Lake by Emily Claire Cobb▲ The Rev. Matthew McWaters hunting with his son, Noah11
and into the narrative. We started asking, “What does this mean for us as people here in northeastern Minnesota, as those entrusted with the responsibility of making some decisions around nances that are good, right, and responsible?” We were looking at this from our role as elected leaders, but also as our role as the people of God in this place.As we began talking about decisions and about numbers, Bishop Amy Odgren brought up the Land Back Movement and some of our synod and church-wide resolutions regarding the Doctrine of Discovery and our relationship to Indigenous peoples on these lands that have been passed over recent years. She invited us to think about how we might oer reparation to our neighbors here across Minnesota.As she brought this up, there seemed to be a sense of uncertainty as we began that conversation and she introduced the idea of making reparation. We went immediately to the place we often do as Christians. We asked, “What does scripture demand of us? What is our obligation?” One of the rst suggestions was, “Well, we should tithe this. We should look at giving back 10 percent.”Bishop Amy used a couple of words very intentionally when introducing us to this conversation of oering reparation. I really do appreciate the way that you framed reparation as “repairing.” I think it’s undeniable that there are relationships to be repaired. And as Bishop Amy introduced this idea of oering reparation as at least the biblical tithe of 10 percent.We then began discussing that a tithe was simply our obligation to the Law. As a gospel people, I believe we’ve kind of moved past obligations to the law. e Law is not the Gospel. e Law is not Grace. ough the Law is a gift from God, the Law doesn’t get us where we need to go. And so we continued to discuss it. We asked, “How do we dive more deeply? How can we oer a reparation that’s rooted in a story of what has been torn apart that we’re trying to repair?”Matt CobbAnd that’s a covenant, actually. When something is ripped asunder or ripped apart, the spirit often passes straight through when you have a new covenant.e Rev. Matt McWatersRight.Matt Cobbat is gospel –a new covenant.e Rev. Matt McWatersYes, so as we discussed what beyond the “at least” of the tithe that we might do, we talked a little bit about sovereignty. We were reminded that this place does not belong to us. We returned to our theological roots and really committed ourselves to whatever action we do ought to come from our theological convictions. And so, recognizing that all belongs to God, our Creator, we began to recognize that that the tithe wasn’t going to be enough. at just didn’t feel right in order to We asked, “How do we dive more deeply? How can we offer a reparation that’s rooted in a story of what has been torn apart that we are trying to repair?”Group Discussion Questions• The Rev. McWaters painted a vivid picture of a connection he felt with Creation in his child -hood when he was hunting. Do you have any profound spiritual connections to the land from your present or past that you can share about?
really repair anything.So the idea was oered of really rooting the reparation that we were oering in our story, in our shared narrative, in this place.Matt CobbShared narrative with whom?e Rev. Matt McWatersWith our Native American neighbors here in northeastern Minnesota and really across all of Minnesota. at is the relationship that was torn asunder.Specically, if we go back to 1854, that was a time in our shared narrative when suddenly the power dynamic shifted and changed. And our narrative has been torn and split since then. e sense is that we [as settler colonists] have been walking a false narrative because it’s not a narrative that we are writing together or that we are living together.So we said, “Okay, if we’re going to do something that returns us to that place in some way or some sense, what about oering a reparation?”I’m really intentional about that language about “oering reparation.” We are not paying for something in the past as though this is some kind of exchange of goods. We are not oering goodwill so that we feel less guilty or anything like that. But instead, oering a gift–something that really doesn’t belong to us in the rst place and beginning to do that work of repair.So the suggestion was made: “What about oering a reparation of 185400 USD?”And there was a sense of silence, perhaps a moment where the spirit was leading us in discernment. Perhaps it was a feeling of unease of being in an in-between place and wondering, where is this going to go?And it became clear as we began really oering support for the idea that this is the direction that the Spirit was leading us in: oering a reparation that was tied to a number that is not just a number. is number has meaning. It has meaning for our shared narrative in this place with our Native American neighbors. And it was here we were reminded that if this was a number that we were going to use, that it would be a number that would be recognized.Some of the discussion that followed was along the lines of perhaps we should oer this in grants, or something like that. But that idea got shot down pretty quickly, particularly because if we are granting money and there’s an application process, we would still hold the strings, and we would still hold the power. When I think about violence, I dene that as a power imbalance in a relationship. If we are holding the power in deciding how this is being used, that’s not a relationship that’s being repaired.So we kind of threw that idea out the window and recognized that in the same way that God so freely gives us, we were simply going to oer this reparation and pray that the Spirit would do its work. So we are beginning that work. It’s a beginning. It’s not the end. It’s not the last step. We are just starting to nd our place here together and to write this narrative together again.«• Having heard these descriptions of spiritual connection to the land from people in you discussion groups, how does this inform our understanding of the displace -ment of our Native American neighbors, whose families had centuries-old family connections with the land they lived on?• In addition to looking beyond the 10% monetary tithing amount, how else can the Gospel serve a lens to look at how we work on repairing intergenerational harm?
If we are looking at repairing our relationships, what do we do with anksgiving? How does the holiday’s popular mythology obscure the realities of our history, and how do these misleading myths get in the way of connecting with one another and our Creator? Host Matt Cobb (left) gets into this subject with Kevin Kot (right), an Ojibwe elder and member of the Red Cli Band of Lake Superior Chippewa. Kevin is also the American Indian Education Coordinator for the Carlton School District in Minnesota. Matt CobbCould you introduce yourself to our listeners?Kevin KotMy name is Kevin Kot Nindizhinikaaz, that’s my Anishinaabe name. Makwa Nindoodem , that’s my clan, which is Bear Clan. And Miskwaabikaang Nindoonjiba, that’s my community, which is Red Cli, up in Northern Wisconsin. I always like to say all of that. It kind of centers me when I have to say who I am. Currently, I’m an American Indian Education Coordinator for the Carlton School District in Minnesota. And so that’s my job right now.Matt CobbSo today we’re going to start from the context you’re in as an educator. We’re going to look towards that time when the school district starts to get out the pilgrim hats and the feathers. You can see the kids in kindergarten, rst grade, and second grade, and they start doing this thing called the national holiday of anksgiving.All of that is coming from my white perspective. And I’ve tried to educate myself, but I really love to hear from you and especially for our listeners to understand what is this thing we call the anksgiving Holiday.THANKSGIVING:AN AUTOPSY▲ Host Matt Cobb with Episode 2 guest Ojibwe elder Kevin Kot15
Kevin KotWell we know what the myth is. e narrative tends to go: here we had these friendly Indians–of course, they’re never identied—and they welcome the Pilgrims to this place here and had this great meal. ey teach them how to live in this new world. But basically, the story is that they handed o America to these white Europeans.e problem is that this story doesn’t identify what the tribe is. Who are the Wampanoag? What is their story in this? Part of their story is: this is not the rst meeting that they had with people from somewhere else. ey’ve had over 100 years of this experience. I believe that when the Pilgrims came o that Mayower, they already had two English-speaking people. Well, how did they learn to speak English? We don’t tell that part of the story. When Europeans had these other contacts with Native Americans, these people were taken as slaves back to Europe. is is where they learned how to speak EnglishSo, these people were the Wampanoag. All this gathering together wasn’t about being friendly. It was really about these people [the Wampanoag] who had had an epidemic that ravaged their people before the Pilgrims ever came. And I think it was estimated that almost two-thirds of their population was wiped out, both their old and their young.When these Pilgrims came and they have this feast together, this was more about the Wampanoag creating an alliance with them because they always had some rivals around them. In a sense, the Wampanoag population was decimated. ey wanted to come to an agreement with these Pilgrims and this was an alliance. is was not about this great feast together. It was really more about survival, and how they were going to create this alliance.When these Pilgrims started having these anksgiving Days, in the beginning, they never had a great meal. What they were doing during that time was that they were fasting and praying. It was never about this big meal. When we start to look at the origins, I think they’re talking about like around 1769 or so when this started coming out from the descendants of these Pilgrims creating this story. ey wanted to create this story that these Pilgrims were kind of the founders of America. at’s the story they wanted. And that’s the story that started to take hold. And it became very popular. It became so popular that when you come up to Abraham Lincoln’s time, he’s the one that made anksgiving the holiday during the Civil War because he was trying to unite the country.So we go all the way back there but then we never tell much after that. We never talk about the King Philip Wars. Philip isn’t anybody from Europe at that time. A lot of the Wampanoag and others were taking on English names. And this particular Wampanoag leader was named Philip. So they tried to unite themselves together enough to try and push “When these Pilgrims started having these Thanksgiving Days, in the beginning, they never had a great meal. What they were do-ing during that time was fasting and praying.”Group Discussion Questions• 16
back all these colonies who have taken more and more lands. ey recognized if they didn’t do something, they were going to become enslaved to these Europeans and they would have no land anymore.So when I started thinking of anksgiving and start to remember, this is what this holiday is about. But I get the feeling a lot of churches only have the one story. ey continue to talk about this story with the Pilgrims and about how Christianity had its manifest destiny here. ey were going to be a great nation that was going to bless all the peoples of the earth.Matt CobbWell, it denitely goes back to the rst book in the Bible, for sure. You get that manifest destiny from the “dominion” in Genesis 1 and 2. “Dominion” means to dominate, or have power over.Kevin KotLet me read what they wrote down in the Mayower Compact:“In the name of God, Amen. We, whose names are underwritten, the loyal subjects of our dread Sovereigne Lord, King James, by the grace of God, of Great Britaine, France and Ireland king, defender of the faith, etc. having undertaken, for the glory of God, and advancement of the Christian faith.”[It’s as if] this is like the only nation that has ever been founded for the glory of God and the advancement of the Christian faith. But that’s very problematic because here these people are eeing from persecution. But what they don’t realize–and we see this in all kinds of dierent places, even in South Africa–is that when you’re oppressed, if you don’t get rid of all that colonialism, you become a worse oppressor than the one that was oppressing you because you never got rid of that.And to me, that’s where I think about this Bible story. Why did God lead Israel from Egypt out into the wilderness? Because the Israelites had a lot of Egyptian in them. ey had a lot of their thinking about the way things were supposed to be. And you have to get rid of that. You have to.We need to get rid of this thought that “this is how this is.” You decolonize and then you come back as a real community–a caring, loving community. And to me, I think when it talks about Jesus being “the Way,” that’s what he is teaching. He was the Way to decolonize. at’s what he stood against; that’s why the empire crucied him. I mean, they wanted to kill him because he was not all about empire. And that’s where we are today and we have to reect on that a little bit. So non-native people can actually see and sit with this and see: “We didn’t have a manifest destiny.” Maybe God was taking them, and this is just my thought, maybe God was taking the Europeans out into the wilderness to get rid of all that they had in them that they didn’t need anymore and really teach them the Way.Was it really that they [Europeans] were going to be showing these people [Native Americans] a greater way? Because I just nd more of my teachings are much more relevant than some of the other teachings that I get from Christianity. It gives it more meaning.«• What kinds of societal shifts do you think would take place if children were no longer being taught the Thanksgiving myth, but began learning about more histori -cally accurate view of what happened on these lands? • What are some concrete ways that we can start to shift our theology away from the God of empire and conquest toward the God of lovingkindness and community?
In the wake of episode two, anksgiving: An Autopsy, we observed an uptick in the number of heated conversations within some of our ELCA congregations. Specically, we’ve encountered a lot of questions and debates around politics and how we reckon with our role as members of a nation-state while also being members of the Body of Christ.Conversations surrounding how these two identities inform one another can be dicult and emotionally charged. ey touch on some of the most tender areas in our souls related to how we think about ourselves, our family histories, and our relationships with our neighbors. When proceeding on this sacred ground, we want to walk gently and with caution so that we can relate to one another in a healing way rather than in a way that does further damage.Before we resume our more focused conversations around treaties, reparations, and bridge-building between Native Americans and Settlers, we are taking a pause to have a kitchen table-style conversation with spiritual faith leaders, Indigenous and Settler alike, to breathe into the work we are doing and ponder where we’ve been, where we’re at, and where we’re going.So, what roles do our politics and our national identity have to play in our churches? We invited Kevin Kot (Ojibwe), Colleen Bernu (Ojibwe), Patricia Dickson, (Congregational Justice Team Chair) the e Rev. Beth Pottratz (ELCA), and the e Rev. James Muske (ELCA) to our kitchen table to wrestle with this question.Matt Cobb [Host]I appreciate you all being here, and I have a question for you to ponder. What is the crisis that brought you to this conversation?e Rev. Beth Pottratz [ELCA]: I can start with a humorous take on your question. It came last night. My husband believes that one of the greatest Christmas movies of all time is National Lampoon’s Christmas Vacation, which is a huge comedy. But last night as I was preparing for this conversation, my family was watching this movie, and there’s a scene in the movie in which the family all sits down for their Christmas meal. And they ask Aunt Bethany if she will say, grace, and she says “What?” and Uncle Lewis say “Grace! ey want you to say grace!” Aunt Bethany responds, “Grace!? She died years ago.” And Uncle Lewis then responds with, “e blessing! ey want you to say the blessing.” So she stands up, and then starts reciting “I pledge allegiance to the ag…” and then everyone stands up and nishes the pledge of allegiance with her.[Laughter] And I thought, what a better example of this topic at hand, of civil religion, of politics in the church, of how our faith and our political lives blend together in good and bad ways.To answer your question a little bit more seriously: one of my big concerns in our society today, and I see it coming into our churches, is how completely divided and polarized we are as a society, especially in the United POLITICS AND NATIONALISM INTHE CHURCHA Kitchen Table Conversation19
States because of our politics and political situation that we have going on. I see it all over the place where politics really becomes a dividing factor, and for the church, I think the Body of Christ is in crisis, that we use these politics to be divisive instead of bringing the unity of the Holy Spirit that we’re called to do as Christians.Colleen Bernu [Ojibwe]Why am I here today? I’m fed up with not being able to have a civil discourse with each other, I’m fed up with the fact that we’ve gotten to a place in our culture where we jokingly say that when we come together as families that there will be political division. I’m fed up that when we as a Body of Christ take a risk, and it ends up being a misstep, we can’t have a healthy conversation about it. [e debate turns into] “that’s the liberals talking” or “this is the conservatives talking,” and then we end up in this battle and we’re not having a conversation about what it means to be baptized into a single family.Kevin Kot [Ojibwe]I think it’s moving away from a fundamental question. And that question is: What does the good news mean? What did it mean then, and what does it mean today? Has that meaning changed? When the writers proclaimed Jesus as having the good news, that was a counter-narrative to the emperor and empire. And I think we’ve veered so far away from understanding, trying to gure out what the heck that is, what that means, that we don’t even go back into the narrative of looking back in the Exodus story. What was it meaning for the Israelites to come out of Egypt? What did all this mean? I mean, what is Christianity, if Jesus is the good news? What does that mean?It doesn’t land on any political spectrum. It calls out all political spectrums. If people are oppressed if people are hungry, if people are suering, if you don’t identify with that, you don’t see your Creator. at’s where you see your Creator. So, for me, a lot of these arguments, whether it be political, it still comes down to a very basic value of: what does the good news mean? You have to answer that yourself. at’s just my thoughts.Patricia Dickson[Congregational Justice Team Chair]I came today because I was invited to come. I kind of felt like how I think my little three-year-old son would’ve felt many years ago at the end of swimming instruction classes when he was told to get on the diving board and jump o and swim the length of the pool. I learned much later that he hadn’t even learned how to breathe that’s why he swam so fast.But I also came because I have questions about where have we gotten lost. It seems to me that we’re a lost people. at our church has not been able to prevent us from becoming lost, we’ve gotten mired down so that “social justice” is a bad word in many congregations, and I want to nd out what can we do about that. How can the church be dierent? I have a lot of thoughts going in a lot of dierent directions. If somebody says something about social justice, [the complaint is] “it’s politics in the pulpit.” But Group Discussion Questions• Is it possible for us to be loyal citizens of a nation state and for us to also be members of the Body of Christ? If so, what does that look like? If not, why not?• What does the Good News mean today, and how can it possibly be good news for all people, “If it’s not good news for all people, then it’s not good news.”20
where would Christ be, but in the pulpit proclaiming that we should be doing justice?Matt Cobb [Host]Yeah, you just landed us in the middle of the deep end of the pool. ank you. And thank you for that three-year-old boy of yours, those many years ago, because that’s a visceral experience. I think all of us can go back to that. Remember when we had to really pay attention to our breath when we went swimming. Pat, you were going to say something else?Patricia Dickson [Congregational Justice Team Chair]Yeah, I was going to say “breath”…we don’t stop and breathe often enough. e one thing that we perhaps have in common with everybody, if we pause, is silence, and we don’t take the time for that silence to really listen and hear.e Rev. James Muske [ELCA]I was thinking back and my mind goes to the Apostle Paul who loved the Body of Christ imagery, that we are all these dierent members of the same body. And you couldn’t fully live out the good news, to Kevin’s point, without the body all connected together and operating and humming along together.[Also, I wonder] do we listen [to each other]? Well, I think we listen, but we listen for kind of the buzzwords or, it’s like we’ve become internet doctors, you know, so we’re listening for every little possible sign and symptom of something that is wrong, something that’s a disease, and we’re going to lop that part o as soon as we can. And so, we don’t really listen to each other deeply, but we do listen for some sign of illness, at least that we think is an illness, even if it’s not actually an illness. I think that’s what’s so heartbreaking and so frustrating. And there may be times when parts of the body are not healthy and we do need to nd health and wholeness, but it gets so confused because of our struggles with fully and deeply listening.e Rev. Beth Pottratz [ELCA]Yeah. I’ll share a little more of my life story. In my northern rural Minnesota life, I met and fell in love with my husband, who is the opposite of me. I love the city and he hates the city. Politically we’re dierent. We disagree on a lot of dierent stu, which leads to lively debates between us. In a lot of ways, we’re opposites, but it’s worked out well. And in all of that journey, from my urban life to now, God has really, worked hard through me to help me understand the dierence between my politics, my political preference, and the Gospel message. Kevin was mentioning the Gospel is “good news,” which means if it’s going to be good news, it has to be good news for all people.If it’s not good news for all people, then it’s not good news, and the political debates that my husband and I get into, they become very lively, but they always challenge me to view dierent issues in dierent lights that I don’t necessarily agree with or have dierent opinions about. But one of the reasons why we can debate politics as well as we do is because we share the underlying values. And that’s something that I don’t see the church able to do, and I think it’s a challenge and it’s not necessarily to the church’s fault because I don’t see our general society today in the United States being able to do this well, either.«• What connotation does “social justice” have for you in your particular social context? Are there other phrases that potentially capture a similar meaning that might not bring to mind preconceived biases people may hold against that phrase?
“I’m part of the Indian Legal Program at Sandra Day O’Connor College of Law, pur-suing the Indian legal certificate there. And prior to that, I worked at Anishinaabe Le-gal Services in Cass Lake, and I did work in White Earth, Red Lake, and Leech Lake Reservations regarding disability cases. I am Indian and Pakistani, specifically Pun-jabi. So I come from that perspective. But I think part of what drew me towards Indi-an law was that my family was forcibly re-moved from Pakistan, and had to relocate to India, due to a border being drawn.” —Samir Grover
W hen we talk about treaty violations, it’s not long before we begin to touch on larger historical ideas like the doctrine of discovery, Manifest Destiny, white supremacy, and progress. Examining these dogmas of Western civilization helps us understand how and why settler narratives often lack attention to the relationships spelled out by these treaties.Matt CobbTo set up this conversation. I wanted to start with Joseph Bauerkemper rst, speaking to us about how the treaties between European settlers and the Anishinaabeg on this land are at the very foundation of our society as an example of how this aects our relationships with one another today. At the center of these treaties is the basic human relationship between the Anishinaabeg and European settlers. e principle and foundation of these treaties are that they recognize the rights were granted to settlers by the tribal nations, not the other way around.Dr. Joseph BauerkemperI’ve got a bit of a certain kind of privilege in this conversation, because I’m certainly not an attorney, nor am I studying to be one. And so, I get to maybe have, instead of a more realistic tilt, I get to maybe have a little more of a moral tilt when I do an analysis of some of these things. And, you know, to my mind, the treaties are at the core of it, in the sense that it’s only by way of treaties that we have this entity called the federal government.It’s only by way of treaties that we have these state governments. You know, those treaties are the pathway through which those things were created and exist, and they’re doing a terrible job of upholding their obligations under those treaties, and therefore, they’re doing a terrible job of upholding the reality that allows them to exist.In my understanding, we need to look at those treaty relationships in order to ascertain what are the bases of settler society, its authorities, its latitudes, and its limitations to those things.And so my view at the moment is that if we have more and more folks understanding and appreciating that treaties are fundamental to settler society, to relationships between settler governments and Indigenous governments, that they create the reality in which something like the United States, something like Minnesota, something like the Northeastern Minnesota Synod of the ELCA...they create the reality in which these things can exist. Without those treaty relationships, there’s no legitimacy to any of that. And with that comes a whole host of obligations that are pretty obscenely neglected, and so, you know, this conversation hopefully can engage more and more folks in that. And the more folks learn about that and appreciate whatever their relationship with these various treaties might be, perhaps we’ll be a little bit better o, or a little bit less worse o, when it comes to our crises here.Matt CobbWhen we get down to morality, Christian morality, when we get down to faith and faith formation, one of the things that the ELCA and TREATY RIGHTSAND YOU◄ Portrait of Samir Grover by Emily Claire Cobb23
the Episcopal Church has done is adopted resolutions to repudiate the doctrine of discovery. And it’s a really big assumption that Manifest Destiny, these kinds of things, will continue to progress. And so that creeps, that creeps all the way to legislatures. ere’s a creep to that. And I think there is some culpability to appeal to that moral conscience that Joseph brought us to.Tadd JohnsonIt’s a huge issue you’ve brought up. First of all, the doctrine of discovery was essentially a Catholic doctrine promulgated by popes and Spanish theologians and rened over the years. It allowed for the rst European sovereign to get to the Native Americans to make a deal with them. Usually it was “please don’t harm us,” and there was some trading of goods as well.But there was an underlying assumption that, you know, a good thing for these Indigenous folks would be if we could Christianize them. And that continued on, and here’s where you get into a separation of church and state issue. e boarding schools started in 1879 in Carlisle, Pennsylvania, by Captain Pratt, who said “Kill the Indians, save the man.” And so consequently, kids as young as four were brought from Arizona and places West to, you know, thousands of miles away to Carlisle, Pennsylvania. ey were not allowed to speak their language. ey had Christianity driven into them, and that was going on all over the place. Both my grandparents were in a boarding school at Lake Vermillion up here in northern Minnesota. And anyway, after Wounded Knee took place in 1890, I mean, they’ve already kind of made all these generations of kids that went to boarding schools think that their religion is like devil worship or worse.And anyway, so the United States, which with its plenary power, ended up passing laws, and especially in courts of Indian oenses and other places where the United States had some say in what the Native Americans could do on their own reservations, there were statutes eectively precluding certain types of prayer, certain types of dances. And so in spite of the fact the United States was founded on religious freedom for the Quakers, the Catholics in Maryland, the Puritans in New England, those rights were not acknowledged by the United States for Indian tribes until 1978. And that is a slap in the face, if nothing else.Matt CobbIs it the case that there is a continued assimilation that’s going on right now?Dr. Joseph BauerkemperTreaties serve as a legal source or as a moral source for a very small amount of what settler governments do, and ◄ Guest Tadd Johnson is a nationally recognized leader in the area of Native American LawGroup Discussion Questions• How and where can we begin to educate ourselves on the treaties that allow our governments examples on how they have gathered this information? 24
white supremacy serves as a real signicant and expansive source for a lot of it. I mean, the plenary power, show me where that comes from if not white supremacy. ere’s not a basis in a treaty for that. ere’s not a basis in reasoned law for that. It comes from elsewhere. And I’d be happy to be proven wrong in that regard. But I think that it comes from white supremacy. It comes from the idea of superiority, in any case.I’m really curious about how myself as a white male — with the racial undertones and the plenary discussion with the treaties — begins to set up as a settler trying to acknowledge, as much as possible, the fact that I am a custodian on white supremacy. I am a beneciary of white supremacy. All these laws are actually lies. And I want to begin to become more of an ally. I know it’s not upon me to say I’m an ally now. It really has to do with the solidarity, I think. And so how does someone like me, a white Anglo-Saxon Protestant Christian cleric, become an ally in this, sounds like a ght.Matt CobbSamir, you get a really interesting perch you’re sitting from, because there is a Anishinaabe man and two white settler men, and you’re a man in this conversation, but you’re coming at it as a person whose parents immigrated to this land, from another land that was parsed and divided, as you said earlier. What’s your perspective? And maybe that will be what we close on.Samir GroverI’m a law student at Sandra Day O’Connor College of Law in Phoenix, Arizona. I’m part of the Indian legal program, pursuing the Indian legal certicate there. And prior to that, I worked at Anishinaabe Legal Services in Cass Lake, and I did work in White Earth, Red Lake, and Leech Lake Reservations regarding disability cases. And, yeah, I’m Indian and Pakistani, specically Punjabi. So I come from that perspective. But I think part of what drew me towards Indian law was that my family was forcibly removed from Pakistan, and had to relocate to India, due to a border being drawn. Yeah, I think for me growing up here, and also reaching back to my roots and where I’m from, I think I found a purpose in Indian law and relating to where I’m from. Because, as far as being an ally, I think where education comes into play is that colonialism, it’s still existing in our law, it’s deeply rooted in it. And it’s had eects here, it’s had eects throughout the world. And it’s important for people to understand this decolonization process can only occur when we go towards the root of it: the doctrine of discovery, the sense of white supremacy and superiority over the decision makings of other people. I think people will be allies when they realize the importance of Indigenous nations and the culture and how important it is to us as a society.«“Treaties serve as a legal source or as a moral source for a very small amount of what settler governments actually do, and white supremacy serves as a real significant and expansive source for a lot it.• Can you think of any examples of where unquestioned assumptions about white supremacy, manifest destiny, and the supremacy of Christianity unconsciously • What are some of the contextual biographical factors or underlying tensions
D rawn from the podcast episode titled “Re-pairing Means Standing on Common Ground,” this episode of Broken Lands features a dialogue between two women residing in the Northeastern Minnesota region: Colleen Bernu, an Ojibwe woman, and Randi Alreck, a woman of Norwegian descent. ey share about their respective cultural backgrounds, and how they have learned to live well together by standing on the common ground that they share. By common ground, we mean both the literal ground of Northeastern Minnesota and the narrative ground of their common faith tradition of Christianity. ey talk about how their relationship to the land and to their faith has helped them to learn to coexist within the diversity of their experience. We believe this can serve as a case study in how settlers and Native Americans can start to live twell ogether.Matt CobbToday we have with us on Broken Lands, Randi and Colleen, would you both introduce yourself and then maybe one of you could say how the two of you all met?Colleen BernuGo ahead, Randi.Randi AlreckOkay. I’m Randi Alreck, and Colleen and I met, oh, my goodness, how many years ago? Was it 2008 or 2009, I think it was? And we were both in the same congregation. I was leading a couple of Bible studies at the time, and Colleen was part of that. And she had a young child who was just a delight. And we were doing vacation Bible school, so I got to do some fun activities with Colleen’s daughter when she was very young. I remember one of them had to do with being shers of men, and we had a pail of water and we had some goldsh and the preschoolers could dip down with a little tea strainer and be shers of goldsh.Colleen Bernu[Oers traditional Ojibwe greeting] So, my name is Colleen Bernu, and I just introduced in a traditional Ojibwe greeting. And that’s so foundational to identity for who we are in community. It’s one of the very rst things when people are exploring the reclamation process and beginning that really hard work of trying to come back from the forced assimilation programs and processes that our people have experienced. One of the very rst things that they will learn is their introduction. It grounds you in your clan. So that’s your familial relationship in your community, which for me is a little complicated.I live on the Fond du Lac BUILDING BRIDGESwith OUR FAMILYSTORIES“My grandfather came from Norway when he was 17 years old...I had a rich experience with being able to be part of a community of Scandinavian fisher-person. It’s something that is deep in the history of the little town I grew up in.”27
Indian Reservation, which is Nagaajiwanaang, but my community is actually Wigwaasig, an o-reservation community. I have, however, not lived there for more years than I did lived there. I was one of those people that as soon as I was 18, the grass was greener everywhere else. So, out I went, right? But my whole family still lives there, and that is, honestly, where I consider home. at’s the place where I know the medicines. at’s the place that I know the land. at’s the place where I could just show up at an auntie’s house and walk in and they ll up my pockets full of goodies, goodies to bring back to my grandma and my mom as well.So, I met Randi at the time that she explained, but there was a piece of my life at that time, I was experiencing extreme health problems and Randi was there just to walk with me. She walked in a semi professional, like congregational way, but she went above and beyond to take that to a relational place, at a time where I really didn’t have a rm community yet. Randi AlreckMy grandfather came from Norway when he was 17 years old. ere was nothing for him there in his area that he was leaving in Norway, and he had an old two older brothers and older sister in the United States. First he stayed a bit in New Jersey, then he was in Chicago, eventually found his way to the North Shore and became a sherman on Lake Superior, and also lived summers on Isle Royale.And I had a rich experience with being able to be part of that community on Isle Royale of Scandinavian sher-persons. It’s something that is deep in the history of the little town I grew up in. We have a celebration in our community the rst weekend of June, and it celebrates the Scandinavian culture in food, in dancing, in music. And I’ve been involved, especially in the the little plays and puppet shows that the children put on, that all have sort of a Viking background. And our family had special foods and things, we share recipes, and I really enjoy this community that I didn’t in any fashion think I was going to live here or appreciate the way I do right now. And a big part of that and the heart of the community is the church that I attend now and I’m a member of. I recognize I am where I’m supposed to be, but also discovering where I live that there is a great rich heritage of our Native background here. And I live by the shores of Lake Superior, and I have had individuals who have Native background who have pointed out the spiritual feeling of the waters here, and I’m going, oh that’s what it is. Yes, you can notice it during COVID, what happened right in front of our home, is people would come Group Discussion Questions• Do you know the stories of how and when your family came to reside on these lands?• If you descend from settlers from people who immigrated from Europe, do you know the family stories of any of the Native Americans in your area? “My community is actually Wigwaasig, an off-reservation community...My whole family still lives there, and that is, honestly where I consider home. That’s the place where I know the medicines. The place where I know the lands. That’s the place where I could just show up to an auntie’s house and they fill up my pockets full of goodies.”28
and just sit. Some of them would be wearing their scrubs and just sit in silence, maybe it was after their their shift at the hospitals or whatever that was going on with COVID, or people would just ock here and be playing in the waters. And there was such an incredible healing kind of thing or a soothing time where people could could just be. And that’s, I think, a lot of the part of why I’m on this experience of seeing how we can be together here in this wonderful spirit-lled place that I feel that we live in.Colleen BernuYou know, as Randi was talking, I was thinking, it’s complicated. It’s a complex identity, to be Anishinaabe, to be Ojibwe, especially in the northern areas of Minnesota, Wisconsin, in Michigan, where we have had cultural interactions with Europeans since the 1600s and the very beginning of those interactions was grounded in a commitment to live well together. So as Randi’s talking, I’m reecting on the fact that though the culture I know, the only culture I know is Ojibwe culture. And yet, in our community, and as well as many indigenous communities, there’s this big conversation about blood quantum, and do you have enough blood quantum to be considered Indigenous or not? And does that matter? Is it about culture?And it’s interesting because if you were to look at my blood quantum, my highest percentage of blood is actually Norwegian. My grandmother, her parents came from Norway, she had siblings born in Norway. And yet I know nothing about being Norwegian. Not a thing about being Norwegian. My great grandparents. I jokingly say, but it’s true, were the best Norwegian Ojibwe people I have ever heard of. rough a whole series of misfortune and exploitation of non-English speaking immigrants, they ended up in the tribal community that my mom’s family was from, and, they believed that honoring humanity was more important than retaining culture. And so they gured out how to live well on the land from the people who lived there.My dad’s father had been in a dierent tribal community. His mother died when when his youngest sibling was born. He was like 15 or 16 at the time. And his father left. And the Ojibwe community there helped him raise his siblings. So his worldview was very much formed by the worldview of the Ojibwe people.And so when I grew up there were family stories like how to how to interpret when rain was going to stop by looking at bubbles and puddles, how to interpret when seasons were going to change, by looking at the stars, how to know how to make a particular salve or poultice by using dierent plants and other things on the land. And I heard those stories from both sides of my family. I didn’t realize that that wasn’t what everybody does. Until I went to my rst sleepover in upper elementary school. And suddenly I realized that the way we viewed living in the world was dierent. And that was my rst understanding of culture. Because to me in the family culture I grew up in, did it matter so much where you were born? Being here on this land looked a particular way, and it was all shaped by a Ojibwe worldview.«• •
▲ 2022 ELCA Churchwide Assembly Holy Communion Worship Service Leaders
In this episode, we are going to hear from two Ojibwe women. Colleen Bernu, Director for Evangelical Mission for the Northeastern Minnesota Synod of the ELCA and Synod Minister for Diversity, Equity and Inclusion. We’ll also hear from her high school-age daughter, Johanna, about what living together well might look like here on broken lands. First, Colleen reects on the signicance of this reparation payment and what that might mean for the future. Colleen BernuI think that we have hundreds of years of talking past each other, thinking we’re saying the same thing. But in reality, we aren’t. And that’s both the short game and the long game, right? As far as the long game, I have my own hopes and dreams and wishes, and we have to start healing from some of the fractures that we have exhibited on each other. I have this opportunity and both responsibility to stand in this liminal space where I can be both – I stand as someone who acknowledges that the Jesus way makes sense and that there’s room here and that creates community. And because of that, there is a possibility for reconciliation, because that’s a promise we’ve been given. But I also stand in a real lived reality that hasn’t been something that so many people have been able to experience within my community. So I think that at the end of the day, I will feel like we’ve had a win, so to speak, if we can say, ‘Yeah, this is possible.’ And there’s some bridges that have been built and some healing that started to occur. Matt CobbNow let’s hear from Colleen’s daughter, Johanna, as she reects on her perspective of living between worlds – and what it’s like to build community from this place. Johanna BernuI was born to two native parents from very dierent backgrounds. One grew up in a community that was strictly Catholic. My dad said, and he was – he developed a hatred towards the Church, felt like it was forced. And then my mom grew up in a community that had a little bit more freedom in religion, was less forced. It was okay to push the boundaries a little bit. And that’s kind of where I nd my driving factor, my force. So my mom has created this ministry setting through many, many years of work and trial and error and kind of connecting all pieces of life – both in our indigenous community and our community and living with God and God’s family and Jesus specically. at’s complicated at times. I think it’s really hard for me to learn to accept the fact that I was raised as a Christian OUR CHILDREN ARE LEADING US NOWColleen Bernu ricing with her spouse Chuck ►31
person, and that meant that I was born to a community, and I was raised in a community that was complicated and messy and had a very dicult and traumatic past. So I think that in a way, it’s not really the life that I chose for myself. It was very spirit-led of: ‘Well, this is my life now.’ So it was more of an acceptance than a choice, I think. Community for me is the people in your life who are there no matter what. So some people may call that family, but it’s a little more complicated when your family isn’t necessarily blood-related, and it’s just a communal group of people that doesn’t always believe the same thing and doesn’t always act the same way, doesn’t always accept the things you do, but is still there for you and would be by your side no matter what.So I think this communal identity is, like, a piece that you create with those around you. It’s that you’ve accepted in yourself that this is how you want to live and this is the precedent you want to set down for your piece in the seven generations. ey are walking that road with you no matter how that works. I struggle to nd my long-term hope in the church just because of all of the historical things that happened. I feel like my church community is not the one I lean into. I feel a little more ighty with that and denitely not the people I would call if something was going on. And that’s okay. I’m okay with that. I take Ojibwe language in school. And we did a week where we broke down Ojibwe words into their little sections and we examined the way guns, or drum, and you kind of gure out how complex life really is. And I think we lose that when we come uent in the language. We don’t really think about it. And even English, in a way, has Latin bases that create this complexity. And we forget that and we move on. And, “oh, it’s just a word.” But I mean, that saying that words hurt may seem like really cliche, but words have more meaning than we give them credit for. And I think of awakening the Dreamers, just accepting that everything around you was somebody’s dream. at you are – You are someone’s dream, and you were someone’s dream three generations ago, and you are dreaming the three generations ahead of you and accepting that you are not a mistake and that you did nothing wrong. And the way you are is just who you ◄ Johanna Bernu, from our next generation of leadersGroup Discussion Questions• What are some examples of how non-Native settlers and Native Americans have historically spoken past one another? Can you list any examples in which this could still be happening today?32
are. And that’s okay. And that you are the dream. And there’s a purpose, and it’s just a matter of sitting down and really guring out what you want. Not what society wants, not what your parents want, not what your family wants – what you feel called to, and whatever that could be. Matt CobbNow we shift back to Colleen, who describes her historical perspective of being an indigenous woman and the historical weight and trauma that this identity carries with it. Colleen Bernuere’s something about humanity that feels the need to dehumanize other people, groups within humanity, and we have terms for that. We can call it patriarchy, we can call it whiteness, we can call it white supremacy, we can call it… there’s a whole lot of language trying to wrap our heads around what is the – how do we describe this need to dehumanize each other? Racism. You know, we can think of a whole bunch of words. But at the end of the day, it boils down to seeing someone as less than yourself. American Indian women and children and girls, in particular, have been sexualized from the very beginning. And it is recorded throughout history that we have been exploited in the human tracking industry from the moment that Western culture started to open up a continual pathway across the ocean between the two continents, the European continent and the North American continent. When American Indian people were sold into slavery, women and girls were sold at 50 to 60 times the value of American Indian men. And there’s a direct link in documents to the sex industry for that. Matt CobbAnd we will end by giving the last word to Johanna, who reects on how the possibility of a change requires the power of imagination, which can be both exciting and frightening all at once. Johanna BernuI think in our world, we don’t want people to use their imaginations. You sit in history class, you worry about banning books and taking away all religions and forms of expressions and all that. And it makes me wonder what life would be like if we would let people dream and let people imagine. Because imagination can be scary, because it can bring change. It can warrant massive change. And that for humans is scary. And that makes us want to run away and make it stop. And we don’t really want our lives to change. You realize after it happens that it’s probably a good thing, but, in the moment, it’s scary and you kind of want to run away.«• Do you believe the next generation of settlers and Native Americans might be better equipped to speak with one another and build bridges between their histories? • Johanna closes this interview speaking about the importance of imagination in building a better future. What are some ways that the type of imagination can be a tool for bridge building, and why does that feel frightening at times? “I think in our world, we don’t want people to use their imaginations...Because imagination can be scary.”
contactNortheastern Minnesota Synod, ELCA1111 London RoadDuluth, MN 55802-2240Social:info@nemnsynod.orgContact:(218) 724-4424Website:nemnsynod.org togetherhere.org